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.gif) Plannb23
571 activity points
velmonster
437 activity points
SentientNumberSix
212 activity points
Ivadene
178 activity points
Savage Grace
143 activity points |
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Important Guild Notices
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We are in the process of establishing a very strong
alliance that is not focussed on faction farming only.
We are planning to get teams for GvG, HoH, TA, Alliance
Battles etc. We will also organize Alliance UW, SF, FoW
runs as well as Factions Elite missions. More updates to
follow. If you have more ideas, please chip in. Alliance
forum is open for everyone to contribute and share ideas
to have pleasant days and fun
evenings.
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Forums |
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.gif) Ivadene
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mike issue
7/9/2006 9:19 PM |
Da
Boss Lady
Posts:
180
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i have booted mike from the
guild...........it was my decision alone...none of you
guys were there i was.....and it was way more than any
of you all could understand not being there.....i have
never done anything to hurt this guild on purpose or do
i have a huge ego to feed.....i gave mike the option to
leave w/o being booted he chose not to do that....i
based my decision on what i saw not what i was
told....and to say he just f#$%ed up was an
understatement....it sadens me greatly to do this and i
did try to stop it while it was going on...mike DECIDED
not to listen to me. and for any that feel im being to
harsh i am sorry you feel that way but it isnt fair to
judge my actions when none of you all were
there.
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Posts:
414
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Iva - It is a decision you had made and it is
a decision that we will go with. I support your decision
and I did like Mike in [TKCM] and as a person. He was
our 5th member if my memory serves right.
I know how much sad you were Iva when you told
me about your decision and the reason behind it. Your
job as a guild leader is not easy and things such as
these simply make evenings unpleasant. So, lets all hope
that we don't have to go through something like this
ever again.
All - I do wish Mike good luck and it
was a great pleasure to be acquinted with him. I am very
sad to understand that Mike is not here with TKCM today
but, his stay with TKCM and the good things he had done
for this guild in better days will never be forgotten by
us.
Good Luck to Mike and Long Live TKCM
!!
- Vel
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Posts:
146
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I am disturbed at Mike's actions now that
this is over and how he has used a ONE WORD answer I
gave him to a question he asked me in whisper and turned
it into something it was not. And I took the screenshots
of the text just incase someone decides to challenge
what I am saying based on the deceptions that Mike is
deploying on a broad scale across the
Alliance.
He has already as I have heard gotten a
leader of one of our Alliance guilds to disagree with
Iva's decision. I have seen first hand (with screen
shots as proof) that he is playing people against each
other with HALF TRUTHS in an attempt to divert attention
from the fact that he messed up and have everyone look
anywhere other than himself.
I find this
deplorable and if he continues he will loose all respect
that I have for him that remains as will the alliance
guild that takes him in ( naive people can be future
liabilities ).
I was not involved in this and he
is trying to involve me. I'm offended at this and now
more than ever I'm 100% sure that Iva made the correct
decision in this situation. Mike has never done anything
wrong to me but he does not have my support in the
current state of affairs as they
stand.
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| Keir_M
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RE: mike
issue 7/10/2006 4:24 PM |
Posts: 102
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I find the process that has gone on here
really disturbing. Iva has never explained to me what
Mike did that was *so* bad. Iva has changed
positions during the course of the debate from saying
Mike egged Smash on to then saying they were guilty of
the same crime. And if Iva was on during the whole
course of what happened she should have dealt with it
better and certainly should not have logged off and left
the situation.
I see no central line of sense and
logic to Iva's actions and have found her
explanations contradictory. Thus I can only reason
that Iva is pissed at Mike's failure to own up
to his mistakes in his responses - which is a very
real failure. I do think this has turned into an ego
issue and I'm very sad to see such unilateral action
with such an appalling failure to explain what is going
on. Iva you have a duty to take us with you and you
haven't done it. In my case you haven't even tried you
have just proclamed and left me without evidence.
Basically Iva as far as I can tell your attitude has
been "back me"!
I accept without any doubt that
Mike has made a bad screwup - that came through clearly
from what Mike said. I accept without any doubt that
Mike failed to own up to his screw-up initially and
instead was all prideful. But the bottom line is Mike
has been a good member and you don't kick good members
because they screw-up. You kick them if they won't face
up to their screw-up. Initially that was Mike's response
and I think that is what got Iva enraged. But Mike
started to cool off and face up to his screw up and he
wanted another chance to talk to Iva and face up to his
mistake. That he didn't get it is an injustice - it
sucks.
Iva you were there - that completely
invalidates the way you have subsequently chosen to
handle this. I told Mike that as an officer his
responsibility was to deal with Smash not egg him on -
Iva as the guild leader your responsiblity was to deal
with Mike and Smash and stop it before it went to far -
not give Mike a gently rap over the knuckles and log
off. You yourself acknowledged this mistake but
haven't faced the consequences. That
you logged off leaving the situation to go up a
knotch is an appalling derilection of your duty. That
you failed to stop the situation stone cold is a major
failure on your part. You made this mess by your failure
to provide leadership when it mattered and to then turn
around and boot a repentant Mike is not right - not
right at all.
Ray I think your missing something
very important in what you wrote. You are condeming Mike
for fighting to try and stay in the organisation yet
that is exactly what he should do if he believe he
should of right stay. Your logic condems anyone who
stands up for their rights against a bad decision from
above. I've encountered your logic many times before any
it is a very dangerous one which abandons the
possibility that a leadership can act wrongly requiring
those suffering the injustice to fight back - they have
a right to. Nay a duty to - for the good of us all.
Iva Mike has told me you are enraged at him for
turning me against you - please give me more credit for
being able to make up my own mind. What you have said
about the incident and what Mike has said match - but
that is not even the issue. Good people screw-up and you
treat them differently from others. You have argued to
me that Mike must be kicked because Smash was and how
can we treat them differently? I don't even begin to
accept this because I believe, deeply, in earnt loyalty.
If all the good Mike has done counts for nothing and he
should be judged on the same ground as Smash then there
is no justice in my eyes. Mike has stood up for
this guild in a really rough situation with two of
his long term mates turning nasty of us - and
specifically on me. This was a painful, difficult,
decision from Mike. It was also a brave and just
one. Yes it matters right now - I owe Mike for that, we
all do, and giving him a second chance is a part of
that. Sure Mike has screwed up badly but if you are to
be honest at the time you didn't think it was as
atrocious as you do know or you wouldn't have left it
lying and logged off. Iva your failure to control the
situation is a major contributing factor in this
and your refusal to give Mike a chance to *earn*
redemption looks pretty shoddy in this
context.
From a personal perspective I'm now in
the joyful situation of being the war leader of a
guild who has gone and chosen a guild isle that is
"pretty" and which you can't play with henchies
effectively on. We don't have enough to field a team so
we need to be able to play with henchies. Good going
people. The guild isle is first and foremost for
fighting GvG on. If you want a pretty view go visit
BoH's meditation isle or the desert - or whatever. But
turning our GvG home base into something pretty to look
at and very difficult for us to play on was a shocker of
a decision. We have now lost two of our GvG players,
Mike and Joel, to really drive the point home. Thanks a
heap people. I have done a heap of work to try and
get our GvG team up and running and it has been
very hard work due to the number of large ego's in this
guild. All the worst predictions I made to Vel at
the start have come true and right now I'm looking at
zero progress - in fact we have gone backward
significantly. You guys have been great about PvE and I
really appreciate it but in the end you have really
shafted me on the GvG front.
I am deeply saddened
by this incident of self mutilation. Why don't we just
screw our selves over and then wallow in the mud?
Keir
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Posts:
146
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Take care Kier. And thanks for making MY
prediction come true.
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| Plannb23
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RE: mike
issue 7/10/2006 5:41 PM |
Web Wench
Posts:
807
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Keir first of thanks for the great
response. I think you took your time and put your
points out in a manner consistent with how you
feel. I would like to point out a few
things. This is not the first time that
something like this has come up with mike and other
officers with members of TKCM and this is a quote of
what was said.
Ivadene said:
quote:
Guys i would like to add a footnote
about the dash thing that happened last night...first i
understood where you all where coming from when
addressing him....but i would like you guys to try to
keep the open hostility off the open
chat.....conversations like that i feel are best kept to
whispers, not all the eyes on last night needed to see
that or understood what was going on........should this
situation arise again down the road i feel it would be
best to set up a meeting and clear the air with
the person...i also know this isnt always an option but
it would be a nice thought to shoot for.
P.S.
IMHO
i do agree dash wasnt the sharpest knife in the drawer
and i really got the feel most of what he said was just
to get attention granted he went about it all wrong but
maybe if one of us would have taken some time with him
there may have been a different outcome........think
about it guys a good chunk of us has known each other
for years and some of the new ppl just fit in like we
have been together all that time thats a heck of a thing
being the new guy trying to fit in ( that can be a bit
intimidating to some)
Now that being said lets look
at exactly what the Code of Conduct says:
TKCM
Code of Conduct states:
quote:
If a [TKCM] member dislikes the way
he or she being treated, regardless of the assaulting
player's intentions, the assaulting player is encouraged
to discontinue his or her behavior immediately or face
the risk of being removed from the Guild
altogether.
[TKCM] Guild members will respect
each other regardless of their position, rank, origin,
nationality, age, gender, race, religious beliefs or
creed.
No [TKCM] member will express his or her
frustration via repeated guild/alliance chat spam or in
open forums including our own. If any officer notices
such events, it will be brought up to the guild leader
and appropriate actions will be taken.
A [TKCM]
Guild member is not perceived as an individual but as a
[TKCM] Guild representative. Your conduct will determine
how people perceive our guild. So, you are encouraged to
act in such manner.
As an officer we are supposed to
uphold this. While I wasnt there how many of these
rules as an officer should we allow you to break before
there is a serious repercussion. This is the
second such incedent that I know of that mike was
personally involved in that involed an open chat.
I'm sorry but my expectation of the officers is that we
will uphold the decorum in open forums whether that is
via the chat in guild or chat in allinace. While
it may not have been handled in a manner you agree with
Mike has broken far too many rules too many times
in an area that I think reflects not only on him but on
me.
I understand if you dont agree with
this. And that is your perogitive. But I
think as leadership of this guild we should be held to a
higher standard then our members and that includes your
conduct. As you may or may not know Ray and I
havent exactly seen eye to eye. But not one member
of this guild that, except for those in this channel
know of it ... to my knowledge. There is a
reason. We have lived up to our end of the
officership bargain.
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| Kathers
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RE: mike
issue 7/10/2006 5:43 PM |
Posts:
110
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"From a personal perspective" as you
so eloquently put it Keir, just what in the BLUE BLAZES
has our ability or lack thereof in GvG got to do with
the "mike issue"
AND ANOTHER THING (my fittins
are hurt, can ya tell?)
How does your dislike of our
Guild Hall come into play with the "mike
issue"
Apples and Oranges are both part of the
Fruit family. I know that. Beyond that,
their similarities end.
Our Guild Hall, my
inability- or lack of desire to GvG has ABSOLUTELY
nothing to do with the "mike issue."
that is-
"from my personal perspective"
anyways.
Kathers
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| Ivadene
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RE: mike
issue 7/10/2006 6:04 PM |
Da
Boss Lady
Posts:
180
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First keir you dont have to slam all of the
guild for my choices....i did not ask the officers to
back me in the decision on mike cause i never asked them
to tell me what they thought.....as for my me being
"enraged" at mike for turning you against me....thats
not what i said...i told him that he gave you the sugar
coated version of what happened trying to make himself
look better....yes i was upset that mike came out of the
gate denying what he did...but he did eventually fess
up....and i fail to see where i have been wishy washy on
this...as for that night when i did log off they had
calmed down so i thought the issue was over....i guess
it is my fault for not booting them on the spot ...i
shall not make that mistake again....but either way you
would have had a problem with what i did from what i can
see...as for your comment on they are both equal as i
said......i told you if 2 men rob a bank one goes in
with the gun and the other drives the get away car they
are both equal in the crime and that i do firmly still
believe....and in all our emails you have yet to say hey
lets set up a time get on ts and talk about this i did
sit in a channel a good chunk of last night and let
whoever wanted to come vent could do so i would be more
than happy to do so with you if you wanted too...and
this guild hall thing i told you when it came up for
vote majority was going to rule and it did and i fail to
see how the guild hall has one thing to do with the mike
situation..............and last i checked mike and joel
was not the entire gvg team but it seems i was wrong on
that one too. and for a while now joel has not gvgd with
us due to him being upset over monks not getting
respect.....plz stop the open hostility to the guild
keir im willing to chat with you anytime anywhere hell i
will even call you if you like and i have not asked them
to back me on this....i take full blame for this
one.
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Posts:
414
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Its time to pull a George Bush IMHO.
If you are not with Iva you are against Iva and so, you
are against TKCM. So, here goes:
All those who are with
us - Keir, I liked you before and I do now. But,
I do not like Iva bashing as I know Iva rather
well. You weren't there when this transpired and
she was. So, whatever you are concluding is based on
hearsay and nothing else. What I did not like in the
whole incident was how Mike reported me the incident.
This is what I saw happened.
1. When I logged on
and saw the curse-fest, I asked Smash to get off
alliance chat pronto.
2. I asked the other guild
member who was on the receiving end about what went
on.
3. I opened roster and saw Mike was online. I
asked him what was going on and if he noticed
anything.
4. He told me that he was trying to get
Smash calm down and he wouldn't listen. He told me that
he had wanted to boot Smash and had threatened him.
5. I asked Mike not to boot Smash as only GL has
booting rights.
6. I got this picture and PMed Iva
thru website as I saw her browsing forums. I told her
that Smash was a menace as Mike said and she needed to
do something.
7. Iva logged on to boot Smash and
Smash, by that time, left the guild by mistake.
8.
Iva told me that Mike was egging Smash and she had to
ask Mike to keep off alliance chat. Mike, however, did
not tell me any of that. I wonder why.
9. Next
day, I went on a fact finding mission and the alliance
members and leaders who were present that time told me
exactly what Iva had told me.
10. Iva made a post in
the forum.
11. Iva made a decision to let Mike go on
his own wish or get booted.
Now, if any member of
TKCM had done
this....what would Mike do? What did Mike do to Dash?
What did Dash do? How obnoxious was he actually to be
booted off guild? This is just an example.
Is Mike a kid that Iva needs to spank
to put him in line? Do you honestly believe this Keir
that a "stone cold" Iva could have stopped this alone by
herself ? This was done with a purpose in mind and that
PURPOSE will fail.
Also, so far as PvP is concerned,
before Joel and Chris incident went down, Mike told you
on TS Keir that he would not do any GvG anymore
with the builds you made as, according to him, they lack
a few things and boon-prot monks needed to be
introduced. This made you very frustrated and you
introduced several other builds since then.
I
understand the frustration that resides within the
hearts of people. Especially, you Keir about the guild
isle. I would have PMed you about this before I voted
for isle of meditation, but, explained my decision to
vote in my post instead. And this has absolutely nothing
to do with the issue at hand.
Now, this post is
not meant to be against you Keir or anyone or anything
that anyone said. However, it is not something that I
did not expect to deal with as soon as I return home.
All will be well and yes, if any of our alliance
guild recruits Mike at this time, I principally oppose
that decision and will recommend to remove that guild
from our alliance altogether. It’s nothing personal,
it’s strictly strategic. Again, I liked Mike and I don't
think I like what I am saying now. But, this must be
said and done...period.
All those who oppose us -
Those who think that a person or a few can break TKCM
into pieces by sabotaging the good thing and if such a
thing really happens, let me be the one to tell you that
I, personally, will pick up the pieces and rebuild TKCM.
I also know that many of us will help me in doing so.
So, in the language of my generation, come get
some!
Take
care,
Vel
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Posts: 100
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Well put Vel and you left me with not alot to
say on it now but i was there and saw the crap go down
and was not pleased, as i am not with his manipulation
of ppl in our guild and our ally's if you choose just to
listen to his side Keir im sry you were one that he got
too. and by your post you have not got to speak or wish
to speak to anyone about this seen as you think we all
have big ego's, and im sry you feel that way, we all now
and have always done anything for anyone.... and about
the gvg issue i took myself out of running cause of my
dial up and didnt want to hurt guild by lagging or
getting error7 and such,Which most ppl r aware of. but
little do you know that there are alot of ppl in the
guild that want to do it...
And the Iva bashing
is not cool she gave them both a chance but Mike lied
plain and simple made us all look bad.
Lets hope
this is the end and we can all get back to what we r
used to and that is to have fun life's to short not
to...
TKCM forever
Dundee
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